Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Youngian wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:09 pm Never had a real job was one of the jibes laid at Kinnock. Often wonder if Starmer went for DPP for a similar reason as ambitious Democrats have done a spell in the military, to shut down right wing tropes that have played in the past.

Perhaps he was, y'know, working at a job. And got promoted, headhunted because he was good at it?

You can take conspiracy theories too far.

When did Keir first decide he wants to lead the Labour Party and began to work out how he got there? Long before he became an MP, I bet. Becoming state prosecutor is a popularly accepted and trusted route to state governor ambitions in the US. Why not here?

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:06 pm I found Neil Kinnock inspiring.

The Sun and their Welsh Windbag jibe. With hindsight, that was an early, working prototype of Don't Look Up.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:06 pm I found Neil Kinnock inspiring.

Me too. I well remember walking home at dawn on the morning after polling day 1992 from the party celebrating the demise of the vile Anthony Beaumont-Dark brought about by our candidate Lynne Jones, which had quickly turned into a wake. I got home, sat down, and switched on the tellybox just in time to see Kinnock speak on the steps of Labour HQ in Walworth Road. I wept uncontrollably. For Labour, for Neil, for all those that so needed a Labour government.

The mad thing is, as awful as Thatcher and Major’s governments were, they’re still so far ahead of what we’ve endured since Cameron it’s absurd.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:06 pm I found Neil Kinnock inspiring.

He, more than anyone, formed my politics.

Crabcakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:02 pm The mad thing is, as awful as Thatcher and Major’s governments were, they’re still so far ahead of what we’ve endured since Cameron it’s absurd.

The lost decade, problem for the press nowadays is consumption is so far down that they are struggling to turn tides.

It won’t swing for the Tories unless people feel richer.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:51 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:06 pm I found Neil Kinnock inspiring.

Me too. I well remember walking home at dawn on the morning after polling day 1992 from the party celebrating the demise of the vile Anthony Beaumont-Dark brought about by our candidate Lynne Jones, which had quickly turned into a wake. I got home, sat down, and switched on the tellybox just in time to see Kinnock speak on the steps of Labour HQ in Walworth Road. I wept uncontrollably. For Labour, for Neil, for all those that so needed a Labour government.

It was the most terrible disappointment. I really thought we would win.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:21 am

Abernathy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:51 pm

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:06 pm I found Neil Kinnock inspiring.

Me too. I well remember walking home at dawn on the morning after polling day 1992 from the party celebrating the demise of the vile Anthony Beaumont-Dark brought about by our candidate Lynne Jones, which had quickly turned into a wake. I got home, sat down, and switched on the tellybox just in time to see Kinnock speak on the steps of Labour HQ in Walworth Road. I wept uncontrollably. For Labour, for Neil, for all those that so needed a Labour government.

It was the most terrible disappointment. I really thought we would win.

Also a perfect example of how the press can flip an election.

Something about cheering for a brass band - means he's a COMMUNIST!!!!
Bacon Sandwiches may also be weaponised.

I think this is why Sir Kier is playing his innings like Geoff Boycott and not Kevin Pietersen.
He knows that one mistake and he's back in the pavilion.

Taking down election placards the day after, so many people came up to us and said how sad it was.

Bones McCoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:00 am
I think this is why Sir Keir is playing his innings like Geoff Boycott and not Kevin Pietersen.
He knows that one mistake and he's back in the pavilion.

That is a quite brilliant analogy (not that I'd give Boycott the time of day).

I may nick that for use elsewhere, if I may.

Another analogy is a two-legged football match. You lost the first leg four-nil. You've got no chance of winning on aggregate, but in the return the opposition fall apart. They have a couple of players sent off, score an own goal, give away a penalty. With five minutes to go you're five-nil up and the tie's as good as won. BUT. One mistake and you're out on away goals. Starmer's dilemma is whether to go for the decisive sixth goal or to hang onto what he's got.

I won’t bother to detail Roy Jenkins’ famous analogy of the man carrying a priceless porcelain vase along a long corridor with a highly polished floor yet again, but it’s the same thing .

Whatever the analogy, they all come back to the same thing - the Tories can fuck up time and again, but we only have to do it once and it's game over. This is something the Jezzites can't grasp.

I’ve been wondering about the press, it seems completely stuck, it knows it’s remaining readership aren’t the ones who will decide the next election.

The Sun has been avoiding politics on its front page like the plague, the Mail when it can will run something banal like Harry and Meghan’s latest turd, the Telegraph has become an apologist for Prince Andrew while running they are all shit editorials or we need a new political party garbage (left dabble in this as well, usually at the same time as Labour are looking at victory).

And the Express seemed to remain slightly unhinged even with the ownership have now effectively started to remove itself from inside the arse of the Tory party.

Throw in the Standard and the Metro that are struggling due to another bugbear of the Tories which is hybrid working. The only paper that can claim to have made an impact through a Lettuce stunt is the Star.

A paper that has certainly changed its political colours since the ownership change. You also notice it with Labour MPs, yes they will write in the Mail, Telegraph and Sun but they don’t bend to the politics of those papers which was often the case in the past.

The media plays a massively important role still, the press I’m less sure.

The media plays a massively important role still, the press I’m less sure.

The rest of the British media starts its day by reporting newspaper headlines, a practice that’s become increasingly baffling as circulation declines. It was easy to think GE2017 was a tipping point for press power but was it? They went easy on Corbyn up until that election to keep him there and his rancid foreign policy history wasn’t common knowledge. That all changed and Corbyn was such easy meat, reporting stuff he’d done was far more effective than invented smears about being a Czech agent. We should hold our horses again on this hope of press influence decline. They don’t have diddly squat on Starmer yet approval ratings are not high. I don’t recall ‘boring’ being a factor not to vote for Thatcher over Kinnock who apparently clowned around and wasn’t serious enough to be PM.

Abernathy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:57 am

Bones McCoy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:00 am
I think this is why Sir Keir is playing his innings like Geoff Boycott and not Kevin Pietersen.
He knows that one mistake and he's back in the pavilion.

That is a quite brilliant analogy (not that I'd give Boycott the time of day).

I may nick that for use elsewhere, if I may.

Try Gavaskar instead.
A true great, a point for diversity, and Boycott would hate second billing.

When breakfast telly started, a concession was made to the newspaper trade by having the daily paper review, so as not to undermine the press totally. These days it's partly space filler, and partly a way to voice opinions that make good telly but can't easily be aired. The "just saying what others are saying" loophole helps here.

Youngian wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:45 am

The media plays a massively important role still, the press I’m less sure.

The rest of the British media starts its day by reporting newspaper headlines, a practice that’s become increasingly baffling as circulation declines. It was easy to think GE2017 was a tipping point for press power but was it? They went easy on Corbyn up until that election to keep him there and his rancid foreign policy history wasn’t common knowledge. That all changed and Corbyn was such easy meat, reporting stuff he’d done was far more effective than invented smears about being a Czech agent. We should hold our horses again on this hope of press influence decline. They don’t have diddly squat on Starmer yet approval ratings are not high. I don’t recall ‘boring’ being a factor not to vote for Thatcher over Kinnock who apparently clowned around and wasn’t serious enough to be PM.

The problem is there is not at this point any reason to not go after Starmer, and his approval ratings aren’t bad to be honest. I still don’t see them deciding an election anymore than they have done for the last ten years.

There is actually every chance the Times might come out for Labour, the Express under Trinity Mirror are laying the ground in the Express I feel (under a banner of regret). You’ve also forgot news media consumption is down.

And the 6 and the 10 the big ones don’t run the newspapers. I’m not saying it’s a foregone conclusion but I do think a fair bit of concern is based on how it’s always been.

It should be almost impossible for Labour to be where they are in the polls but I do feel the 2019 is an anomaly between a salient issue and a poor opposition.

The believe that it is only Labour who had worry about the committed voter floating is something the Tories have misunderstood.

I could be completely wrong but there will be southern seats that spring a surprise or two. This is 2009 so it is entirely possible the Tories can claw back enough, but I do feel the elections this spring will show a very similar situation to them, one which to all intents looked like finishing Labour.

I respect Mandelson a lot but I do think a fair few of the new Labour old guard don’t quite understand it anymore, we’ve been told time and time again that Starmer is too timid, that he is making mistakes and so on and yet look where he is and look how much more primeministeral he looks. I think Labour have a strategy but it’s not going be shared, they won’t do a Miliband and I remember thinking bad idea when he ruled out a coalition and yet he may not need it.

The old adage is a week is a long time in politics, but Sunak’s popularity is heading to the Tory party levels.

I respect Mandelson a lot but I do think a fair few of the new Labour old guard don’t quite understand it anymore, we’ve been told time and time again that Starmer is too timid, that he is making mistakes and so on and yet look where he is and look how much more primeministeral he looks. I think Labour have a strategy but it’s not going be shared

Was constantly telling the cult that Corbyn could shut his internal critics down tomorrow by going 20 points ahead of the Tories. Don’t like or always understand Starmer’s strategising but he’s knocking them in the net so I’ll shut up.