Mailwatch(ed) Forum

Oblomov wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:03 pm John Pilger will be spitting feathers, BBC's PM programme just had Phony B.Liar on to discuss his idea that basically improved the first phase of the vaccine rollout and his calls for the vaccine infrastructure to be retained once this all starts dying down as it could do a lot of good for the world.

A lot of folk will resent him calling them stupid for not getting vaccinated, in the best Otto West tradition.

And speaking of which... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59758757#comments

I await the UKHSA report.

General consensus among those sPeeKU g ThERE brAneZ in the link in Boiler's post above seems to be "let's wait for (other) people to start dying before we worry about Omicron."

There are some really fucking stupid/callous people out there. I'm glad I don't know any of them personally.

Malcolm Armsteen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:26 am Did somebody mention arseholes?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ssing-gown

But Chew responded: “... I’ve been in court... "

Is probably the least surprising thing I'll read today, or any day.

Tomorrow's Telegraph pointing to the University of Edinburgh study which shows a 70% lower chance of hospitalisation and yelling "See? SEE?!?!"

Neatly overlooking the fact that the sample size of the UofE study was, er, 15 people. Better to rely on the Imperial College Study which had a sample size of 56k, and quotes a figure of 40% reduced chance of a trip in an ambulance. However I guess that will be neatly wiped out by the fact it's far more transmissible.

IDS crowing on the front page how Johnson was right all along to stand firm, and how silly the devolved governments were for over reacting. Comments like that of course have a zero chance of coming back to bite him, definitely.

Looking around, it seems everyone else is quoting the 40% figure instead, even the Mail.

Wasn’t it always protecting against hospitalisation.

So it kind of makes sense the NHS in the devolved nations would require more protection due to the shortfall in funding and it’s no guarantee a 30-40% mildness will not overwhelm the NHS.

Problem is some scientists are cautiously optimistic and it seems some have jumped on it as “nothing to worry about” and that’s the worst kind of approach.

We’ve already had to cancel less serious operations which are still vital, a bloke on the BBC having to use a food bank until he could have his operation has had it cancelled from now til 2023.

That’s the fall out.

It's almost as if these things require some abstract, or at the least, imaginative, thinking on the cause/effect, the give/take, the possible consequences of action/inaction as they combine and coil and confuse. Rather than putting on a bowler hat and riding into the Russian guns.

But there we are, that's the 'Best of British' for ya.

Unfortunately a lot of the lockdown skeptics (and this includes people among my own social circles) think that deaths directly from COVID are what it's always been about, this new "protecting the NHS" objective by stemming hospitalizations is shifting the goalposts and basically people should be allowed to do what they want because "how dare medics complain about people needing the hospital because that's the career path they signed up for in the first place".

Callous and self-centered entitlement basically.

Even the morons in charge were clear it was about stemming hospitalizations back in Spring 2020.

These morons deserve each other, shame we're stuck in the middle.

Did I imagine the Nightingale hospitals last year?

They were worried about NHS capacity then, but it's a new thing now. O-o-o-kay.

They probably couldn't staff them then, even less so now I imagine.

How many still exist? From March:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... next-month

If today has taught us anything, it's that the standard of basic mathematical knowledge amongst the general public is staggeringly low.

The All New KevS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:15 pm If today has taught us anything, it's that the standard of basic mathematical knowledge amongst the general public is staggeringly low.

My mate Keith (not that one, the gay one) reckons that innumeracy is at the bottom of a huge number of society's ills, from creationism (can't understand big numbers) to risk management (can't understand percentages). Far too many people are happy to declare that they 'don't understand maths' whereas they are just too lazy to make the effort to understand, as they always have, and did when they were at school. This attitude is then reinforced by journalists and broadcasters who portray understanding numbers as geeky or weird, like being a 'policy wonk'.

I once had a parent ask me, at a GCSE choices interview, to arrange a timetable for his daughter with no maths or science but extra art. Because she was 'creative'. True story...

120,000 cases.

Eek.

However... let us see how that translates into hospitalisations and deaths.

The All New KevS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:15 pm If today has taught us anything, it's that the standard of basic mathematical knowledge amongst the general public is staggeringly low.

And basic civics, history, English language & literature, understanding of art, and so on and so on…

Oblomov wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:38 pm

The All New KevS wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:15 pm If today has taught us anything, it's that the standard of basic mathematical knowledge amongst the general public is staggeringly low.

And basic civics, history, English language & literature, understanding of art, and so on and so on…

Yes, in a sense, but Maths is far more subject to proud ignorance than the others, especially among the journalistic and political sub-classes. Civics isn't really taught in English schools, but the other subjects are quite likely to be highly valued at Islington dinner parties and in other places, too.

Yes, "Maths/science was never my strong point", "and now for the sciencey bit", and down to the positively juvenile "stinks" instead of chemistry, or MPs hooting "he hasn't done his sums!".

You'd never hear anyone talking that way about their skill with English composition.

Exactly so.

Andy McDandy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:50 pm [...] the positively juvenile "stinks" instead of chemistry

That sounds almost Molesworth - was it?

I've never understood the disdain for mathematics. See also: t-shirts bearing the slogan "stand back, I'm going to try science".

On another forum I participate in one member had as his signature "to understand the black art of electronics is akin to understanding witchcraft".

Electronics isn't a fucking "black art", nor is it witchcraft - it's a science, and it behaves predictably according to rigid sets of rules.

It's definitely got its roots in public schools, where no boy expected to actually work for a living, so science lessons were basically about blowing shit up and making smelly concoctions.

That, I think, is the key to a lot of this thinking. Jobs worthy of a gentleman, or ones to aspire to, were about communication: law, politics, church, management, journalism. So while if you work in a practical job you pretty much need some maths or applied science (e.g. mechanics), at a higher level it's enough to get others to make things work, rather than know how they work. Throw in a bit of aspirational snobbery too.