[The Weeping Angel]

I have yet to work out what Ocado has to do with claiming that some of the most vilified members of society are all criminal sex predators.

Because they pulled out of a commercial deal with Mumsnet, as Mumsnet had the temerity to suggest that women should access sex-single spaces.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn4wdmz01m7o

Ocado has apologised "unreservedly" to Mumsnet for citing "hateful political views" when it pulled out of a commercial partnership over the parenting forum's stance on the definition of sex in the Equality Act.

Founder Justine Roberts said Ocado "abruptly pulled out" of the partnership after Mumsnet called at the last election for the act to be reformed "to ensure women can access single-sex places".

Ms Roberts said she had "feared the site might not survive" because of the number of advertisers which withdrew support over the discussion of gender issues on its forums.

Her post came after the Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that a woman is defined by biological sex under the Equality Act.

Mumsnet's call for reform would have allowed for spaces to be reserved for biological women.

Ms Roberts said the forum had also made "repeated attempts to explain our position - as a platform committed to amplifying women's voices" but Ocado had "refused to speak to us".

In a post on X, Ocado said the comments were "not representative of us as a company" and that they were made by a "temporary contractor" who has since left.

"We apologise unreservedly to Mumsnet," the online grocery site added.

[davidjay]

And in today's episode of Your Own Worst Enemy:

Statue of suffragette Millicent Fawcett defaced as trans rights protesters march on London

[Oboogie]

And in today's episode of Your Own Worst Enemy:

Statue of suffragette Millicent Fawcett defaced as trans rights protesters march on London

Women's rights campaigner and the only statue of a woman in Parliament Square so a predictable target.
More surprising is they also did Nelson Mandela's statue - was he particularly known as a women's rights campaigner?

[Abernathy]

Peter Tatchell was on LBC last night talking about this, and was rather sage, as he frequently is. On the public toilets thing, he pointed out that trans women have been using “ladies” public toilets for decades quietly and without fuss, and in most cases without even being noticed. It seems to me that this is something that is overlooked in the frenzied moral panic induced by the raging culture war we see continuing. And again, it’s the fucking toilets thing (see my earlier post). This British obsession with bloody toilets.

More generally, this is pretty good, and something with which I agree :

[Crabcakes]

There are a lot of echoes between this and the lead up to Brexit, in that the EU wasn’t a problem for most people until some people who didn’t like it amplified it out of all proportion. Similarly, what was not an issue for the vast majority now is and we have the equalities minister and the chair of the EHRC saying trans people must now use the toilets of their original biological sex. It doesn’t seem to matter what then Supreme Court judges have said. It’s being taken as outright victory by some and they are preparing to push hard to legislate and litigate on that basis.

It’s not going to end here, because it can’t. As the Guardian have pointed out even a couple of years ago organisations like the Met had guidance that said people should use the toilets for the sex they present as:

There is no law or policy prohibiting anyone from using whichever toilet matches their gender identity, and a trans individual cannot be ordered to use a toilet that they feel uncomfortable using. A trans person does not need to “prove” their right to use the toilet in anyway, including producing a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Well, now there is a law and now they can be ordered. *sigh*

[Tubby Isaacs]

But when a genie is out of the bottle, it's out of the bottle.

I think there's a case that the government could make about people with GRA certificates, and I hope they make it. I think it's a necessity in terms of Labour's voting coalition. But GRA on the back of self-id is dead, not least in Scotland under John Swinney.

[Tubby Isaacs]

There's a lot of talk about toilet police and the like. Lots of people will now feel empowered to do that, but it's not a wholly new thing. Here's a particularly obnoxious semi-famous example.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/foot ... er-4062862

Portsmouth FC fan John Westwood banned for fourth time this season after going into ladies toilets claiming he was transgender

Assume somebody was doing a toilet police role here, and quite rightly.

[Abernathy]

Well, that wanker clearly isn’t a trans gender woman and is obviously just maliciously taking the piss. Thinks he’s making some sort of smartarsed point. I dare say that arseholes like him will always be around, but they should clearly have the book thrown at them.

[Abernathy]

There are a lot of echoes between this and the lead up to Brexit, in that the EU wasn’t a problem for most people until some people who didn’t like it amplified it out of all proportion. Similarly, what was not an issue for the vast majority now is and we have the equalities minister and the chair of the EHRC saying trans people must now use the toilets of their original biological sex. It doesn’t seem to matter what then Supreme Court judges have said. It’s being taken as outright victory by some and they are preparing to push hard to legislate and litigate on that basis.

It’s not going to end here, because it can’t. As the Guardian have pointed out even a couple of years ago organisations like the Met had guidance that said people should use the toilets for the sex they present as:

There is no law or policy prohibiting anyone from using whichever toilet matches their gender identity, and a trans individual cannot be ordered to use a toilet that they feel uncomfortable using. A trans person does not need to “prove” their right to use the toilet in anyway, including producing a Gender Recognition Certificate.

Well, now there is a law and now they can be ordered. *sigh*

Pragmatically, though, I’m surmising that most if not all transgender women will simply continue unobtrusively to use “ladies” public toilets in the same way they have been doing for quite a long time. I don’t foresee the rise of groups of toilet vigilantes.

[Crabcakes]

Pragmatically, though, I’m surmising that most if not all transgender women will simply continue unobtrusively to use “ladies” public toilets in the same way they have been doing for quite a long time. I don’t foresee the rise of groups of toilet vigilantes.

I do hope not. I suspect we will see an upswing in incidents of people (trans, intersex or otherwise) facing accusations/abuse that they’re “in the wrong bogs” because it’s simply the case that some people view this as their green light to be more open with their bigotry.

What we absolutely will see though is changes in places such as single sex wards in hospital. Some women’s groups in favour of the SC ruling have already said they intend to pursue any location where they feel this isn’t being followed. And as I mentioned earlier, I suspect this will be where the law will first be tested to see if it permissive advice or an absolute.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

I do hope not. I suspect we will see an upswing in incidents of people (trans, intersex or otherwise) facing accusations/abuse that they’re “in the wrong bogs” because it’s simply the case that some people view this as their green light to be more open with their bullying.

FTFY

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well, that wanker clearly isn’t a trans gender woman and is obviously just maliciously taking the piss. Thinks he’s making some sort of smartarsed point. I dare say that arseholes like him will always be around, but they should clearly have the book thrown at them.

He's appalling, and not just in this respect , but I don't think "this never happens" really convinces. "Karen White" happened. "Isla Bryson" would probably have happened had he merely got nicked for burglary instead. I really can't see an easy way out of "single sex space" arguments. But Philipson and Starmer certainly need to do better than today, and may have already pissed away a big chunk of votes.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Pragmatically, though, I’m surmising that most if not all transgender women will simply continue unobtrusively to use “ladies” public toilets in the same way they have been doing for quite a long time. I don’t foresee the rise of groups of toilet vigilantes.

I think that's wishful thinking.

[kreuzberger]

Aside from shopping malls, I would hazard a guess that the only single-sex public toilets being used are those in pubs. Where people drink. Used by people who have been drinking.

It won't take much (a couple of Lambrinis on top of the pre-load, perhaps?) to set off the self-appointed lavigilantes.

See the problem there?

[Tubby Isaacs]

One rather glaring problem is that government policy (inherited from Sunak) is to discourage gender neutral toilets...

[Crabcakes]

Pubs, clubs and restaurants. Schools and colleges. Hospitals. Factories and businesses. Swimming pools and gyms. Council buildings.

If you’re trans or at any risk at all of being misgendered, you now might be put off higher or further education, seeking healthcare, leisure activities, keeping fit, visiting the library, or even certain jobs. Or getting to certain jobs - want to cycle and get changed? You’d better be in the right changing room.

It doesn’t help that the U.K. is awash with bullies, but even outside of that you’ve got tiresome prudes, gossips, religious zealots, pranksters, and even your plain old jobsworths who couldn’t actually give a shit about what anyone has in their pants but sure as hell aren’t going to let anyone bend a rule on *their* watch.

As I said, truly the hollowest of victories.

[davidjay]

the U.K. is awash with bullies

The truest, saddest thing I've read today.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Pubs, clubs and restaurants. Schools and colleges. Hospitals. Factories and businesses. Swimming pools and gyms. Council buildings.

If you’re trans or at any risk at all of being misgendered, you now might be put off higher or further education, seeking healthcare, leisure activities, keeping fit, visiting the library, or even certain jobs. Or getting to certain jobs - want to cycle and get changed? You’d better be in the right changing room.

It doesn’t help that the U.K. is awash with bullies, but even outside of that you’ve got tiresome prudes, gossips, religious zealots, pranksters, and even your plain old jobsworths who couldn’t actually give a shit about what anyone has in their pants but sure as hell aren’t going to let anyone bend a rule on *their* watch.

As I said, truly the hollowest of victories.

As I understand it. the court didn't actually require that. It's Starmer going further,

[The Weeping Angel]

Well, that wanker clearly isn’t a trans gender woman and is obviously just maliciously taking the piss. Thinks he’s making some sort of smartarsed point. I dare say that arseholes like him will always be around, but they should clearly have the book thrown at them.

He's appalling, and not just in this respect , but I don't think "this never happens" really convinces. "Karen White" happened. "Isla Bryson" would probably have happened had he merely got nicked for burglary instead. I really can't see an easy way out of "single sex space" arguments. But Philipson and Starmer certainly need to do better than today, and may have already pissed away a big chunk of votes.

When I and others raised the Karen White situation on the pre-fire forum I remember being told by Kobel that anyone complaining was a dangerous lesbian who had it coming anyway. That really angers me to this day.

[mattomac]

Coming to this late but I have to say I’m really disappointed with Labour on this, we have seen a suggestion from the ECHR about gender neutral toilets but as said everyone was trying to row back on these for years. Universities have quite a few but most others will just convert disabled spaces which in itself highlights an issue.

Also Trans men as always have been completely forgotten, of course they now should under what Phillipson and Starmer said today use women’s toilets.

I can’t wait for the first case of that happening…. Not.

Of course the biggest threat to women and girls remains white straight men who don’t dress or declare themselves as women.