[Abernathy]

Goodness, what a beautiful piece of writing. Stefanie Green is a marvellous, compassionate, humane, and admirably rational woman. Power to her elbow. Thanks for posting, Crabs.

[davidjay]

Goodness, what a beautiful piece of writing. Stefanie Green is a marvellous, compassionate, humane, and admirably rational woman. Power to her elbow. Thanks for posting, Crabs.

It is, she is and it's also hard reading.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

No-one should ever be in the position of wanting a loved one dead.

My mother begged me to kill her to end her pain. Didn’t fancy a long sentence in chokey so didn't even contemplate the idea. I was a selfish prick making it all about me by not ending my mum's suffering.

I'm wrestling with the belief that wanting her to slip away is about what's best for me.

Don't let yourself go there. A dignified end is best for her, you are a participant but not a beneficiary. All things must pass.
I fervently hope that her journey ends peacefully and you can find resolution. But never feel guilty.

[davidjay]

Please don't think I'm in any way ungrateful for the support you're all giving, which is of immeasurable comfort, but the one thing I'm learning more than anything is that it's been easy in the past for me to give dispassionate advice but it's bloody hard now I'm directly affected.

[Abernathy]

Please don't think I'm in any way ungrateful for the support you're all giving, which is of immeasurable comfort, but the one thing I'm learning more than anything is that it's been easy in the past for me to give dispassionate advice but it's bloody hard now I'm directly affected.

I’m hoping that doesn’t imply that you’re finding it hard to take value from the dispassionate advice that Malcolm, Crabs and co. are offering. You’re quite right that you can only truly understand something if you have experienced (or are experiencing) it, but others do have experience of your situation, in one way or another. I have too, but for me it’s actually quite difficult to offer dispassionate advice to others.

[davidjay]

I'm eternally grateful for everything that's being said. The way in which my situation is a bit different is that my mum's pain is mental rather than physical. I don't know what she's really thinking (even in her prime she never did stoic, bless her) and I don't know if she might get better. I think it's these unknowns that are the worst part for me.

[Abernathy]

Alas, David, dementia doesn’t get better. It just gets worse. One of Mrs A’s oldest friends was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s about 18 months ago at the age of 63, and though she only sees her now about once a month, it’s possible to track her slow, but steady, decline. So that’s one unknown you may be able safely to rule out.

[Crabcakes]

I'm eternally grateful for everything that's being said. The way in which my situation is a bit different is that my mum's pain is mental rather than physical. I don't know what she's really thinking (even in her prime she never did stoic, bless her) and I don't know if she might get better. I think it's these unknowns that are the worst part for me.

There are 2 things I’d say here - I have no idea if they are any use or comfort, but I hope they will help in some way.

1. What’s best for you and what’s best for your mum aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. I’ve been a carer/lived with someone who was a carer for a poorly elderly relative who was not going to get in any meaningful way better. A sense of relief, potential release or similar is both entirely natural and from a sense your loved one is no longer suffering, and in no way a sign that you’re being selfish. Quite the opposite - the fact you’re considering whether your thoughts stem from selfishness demonstrates it probably isn’t that. Because if it truly was, you’d have been unlikely to have been unduly troubled by it or would have easily dismissed it.

2. Dementia and other diseases are particularly cruel because they leave the physical form of the person you care for but take who they are away, piece by piece. Whatever it is she’s really thinking, you can take some comfort in that it is not the person you knew locked away somewhere, and whatever decisions you make about care are for the best of the person *now* and not for the person they were. Which sounds obvious, but it can be difficult to disconnect the two - so while your mum might have been happiest in her home (for example), your mum now might be just as frightened - or moreso - outside of a care environment.

[satnav]

My mum was diagnosed with dementia about 6 months but all the signs were there much earlier. What has made things worse recently is that my dad's health has now also started to decline rapidly. Having not been in hospital for nearly 60 years he has now been in hospital 4 times in the last year. Whilst mum still likes to get up and walk every day dad now rarely leaves the house because he can hardly walk.

I try and get over to see them both every day just to ensure my dad gets a bit of respite and to make sure they are both taking their medication. If I didn't go mum would not take her medication. The medication is meant to slow the conditions down but generally speaking it doesn't really seem to have much of an impact.

Before mum got dementia she was extremely generous with her money but now she is ultra careful with every penny she spends. She behaves like she is living on the breadline but in reality she has over £200,000 in the bank and probably gets £4000 a month in pension. The only way I can get her to spend money is to take her to Tesco's and self scan any items she takes a interest in and then put it straight in the shopping bag before she notices.

I've recently changed jobs that from Easter I will only be working mornings. Hopefully this will mean I can spend more time with them and have a bit of a rest because juggling work and caring for them has been pretty knackering.

[davidjay]

Again, thank you to both. I'm starting to come to terms with it but I wish I could understand what she's thinking, even just for a moment.

[satnav]

I think I'm at the point where I now just go with the flow. When I arrive at my parents house every day I really don't know what to expect. Some days mum and dad are sat on the sofa holding hands and all is well on other days they are not talking to each other and mum doesn't know that the man sat a few feet away from her is the man she has been married to for 60 years.

My dad used to argue with mum when she said something bizarre but he now realises that it is now easy to either ignore any bizarre things she says or just make a joke about it.

[Crabcakes]

This is an interesting BBC article on the Canadian system. Interesting because the opponents to the system interviewed seem to be unaware it’s by choice on the one hand (or implying that even having the option means they will get worse care or it will automatically happen), and keen that people suffer and endure a bit more (because, Catholicism) on the other. Along with some relatives coming out with what is quite obviously a lie about their deceased loved one for their own benefit, because people dying of lung cancer do not have “beautiful, peaceful deaths”.

The person who is choosing to die early is, in comparison, very eloquent and clear why.

I don’t think this article intentionally had an agenda, but it’s certainly quite convincing that the argument against assisted dying often comes from a place of personal fear or religious dogma.

https://apple.news/A6cS2UMGmQW2EFIf9q_xPNw

[The Weeping Angel]

You ignore the comments from a GP who points out the law is a disaster.

[Crabcakes]

You ignore the comments from a GP who points out the law is a disaster.

Yes, because she says “oh it’s awful” and then backs that up with nothing in terms of evidence, just personal opinion on what she would prefer to see. And then she introduces the catholic ex-nurse whose opinion I am not sure can be trusted as objective given both her religion and her claim her discharged terminally ill mother died a “beautiful peaceful death” at home.

On that basis, she seemed an absolutely terrible source so thought her best ignored.

[The Weeping Angel]

Or she provided a perspective that countered your worldview. Meanwhile

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/idea ... by-starmer

One of the assisted dying bill’s most vocal critics on the committee, Naz Shah, has savaged the whole process and said she hopes it fails when it returns to the House of Commons at the end of April.

In an interview in the New Statesman magazine, she says she feels “disheartened that I will not be able to vote for the bill, because it’s just not fit for purpose”.

The Statesman’s associate editor, Hannah Barnes, writes that the Labour MP for Bradford West is clearly suffering after the gruelling committee sessions yet “though clearly sleep-deprived, remained sharp.” “The one thing that is glaringly obvious is that this is not how we do legislation,” Shah tells her.

Shah is frustrated that no impact assessment has yet been published for the committee to examine. “How can you legislate on something that you don’t even know what the impact is going to be?”

She also discussed the difficulties of scrutinising a bill without having much detail on how it will be implemented. “We have no idea what the [assisted dying] service will look like. We don’t have a model. We don’t know who could provide this service, who couldn’t provide the service. Is it going to be hospices? Is it going to be charities? Is it going to be for-profit? That’s not good enough.”

[Crabcakes]

Dude, I’ve been pretty objective about this. You want me to make a point of saying when someone makes a lousy argument for a different position and as such undermines it, rather than just letting it lie, I’m happy to do so. But not sure why!

[The Weeping Angel]

Except you haven't been objective. You're supporting this bill wholeheartedly which you're of course entitled to do. Any complaints about the bill are dismissed out of hand and of course the people doing them are uncomfortable with death or religious types like catholics. So no you haven't been objective about this.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

He has.
You are doing what you always do and accepting any source uncritically without questioning its agenda, biases or history.
Not all sources are equal...

[The Weeping Angel]

Except he hasn't been objective. Crabcakes has fully supported this from the begining so he hasn't been objective.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

That's your definition of subjective?


I'm going to have to buy a new dictionary...