[The Weeping Angel]

I want to prevent a situation where we have a system like MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying). MAID is what they have in Canada and the system is a binfire. What started out as just let terminally ill people end their life has now been expanded so that 1 in 20 death in Canada are assisted dying. In short it's a total clusterfuck of a law.

https://news.sky.com/story/canadas-assi ... e-13260546

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... sted-death

[Andy McDandy]

No, I think what you actually want is to appear holier than thou, and cling to your "legitimate concerns" in the face of reason and solid arguments.

Potentially to distract us from your mother/wife fucking.

Seriously, punctuation is important. Understand why?

[The Weeping Angel]

No, I think what you actually want is to appear holier than thou, and cling to your "legitimate concerns" in the face of reason and solid arguments.

Potentially to distract us from your mother/wife fucking.

Seriously, punctuation is important. Understand why?

That is wasn't I fucking well meant and you know it.

[Andy McDandy]

Wasn't I fucking well?

Better ask your mum on that one.

[Abernathy]

I want to prevent a situation where we have a system like MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying). MAID is what they have in Canada and the system is a binfire. What started out as just let terminally ill people end their life has now been expanded so that 1 in 20 death in Canada are assisted dying. In short it's a total clusterfuck of a law.

https://news.sky.com/story/canadas-assi ... e-13260546

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... sted-death

So you think that if the Leadbeater bill passes into law, the UK will inevitably experience the sort of problems that have been reported in relation to the Canadians' MAiD legislation (even though the way that the Leadbeater bill is framed is nothing even remotely like the expanded Canadian MAiD system) ?

Simple question - why do you think that ? Some supporting evidence for your view might also be useful if you are able to cite any.

[edited once prior to submission to replace one adjective with a clearer one]

[Crabcakes]

Indeed. 12 other countries have some form of assisted dying. Why focus on Canada?

[The Weeping Angel]

Reading about Canada is enough to make you think twice about assisted dying.

[The Weeping Angel]

Wasn't I fucking well?

Better ask your mum on that one.

Piss off.

[davidjay]

Reading about Canada is enough to make you think twice about assisted dying.

Isn't that like using the US as an example for all forms of healthcare?

[The Weeping Angel]

So where has assisted dying been a success?

[Tubby Isaacs]

What started out as just let terminally ill people end their life has now been expanded so that 1 in 20 death in Canada are assisted dying.

Or 0.8% in Oregon.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The "slippery slope" people seem to be saying an increase in people dying assisted deaths in Oregon is bad. Alternatively, it's more people are aware of the option and have thought in advance about what they want to do.

[Abernathy]

Reading about Canada is enough to make you think twice about assisted dying.

Think twice ? Mohammed on a moped, do you not think that people haven’t “thought twice” about choice at the end of life? Not only have they thought twice, they’ve thought thrice, four, five, six, seven, eight, an endless number of times, and are still doing so. They’ve debated it and voted on it in parliament, and now they’re scrutinising it line by line in fine detail, hearing witness and expert testimonies, revising and amending the bill, making certain the putative law is good and right.

Frankly, TWA, take your “think twice” platitude and stuff it.

[Crabcakes]

So where has assisted dying been a success?

Literally anywhere where someone’s suffering has been alleviated. Which - again - is what happens in the vastly overwhelming majority of cases.

And as for Canada’s “appalling” system:

“What this increase tells me is that Canada has paid the most attention to individual human rights and autonomy,” said Chantal Perrot, a physician and Maid provider. “An increase in deaths with Maid means to me that people are choosing to die with their loved ones around them. The last days, weeks or months of life can be horrific. Why would they want to go through that if they could have a peaceful death surrounded by their family and loved ones?”

Of the 13,102 people who died using assisted death, 96.5% had terminal illnesses or faced imminent death. Only 463 people suffering from a chronic condition accessed Maid.

“I work in the healthcare system and see people with severe chronic medical conditions all the time,” said Mona Gupta, a psychiatrist at the University of Montreal and the chair of the federal panel on Maid and Mental Illness. “The idea that 400 of them – in a country of 40 million people – had reached the point where they had exhausted all treatment options, and wanted to access Maid, does not seems extreme to me.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... used-again

So your “bin fire” scenario is still helping thousands of people, many believe it is not overly generous but a reflection of a truly autonomous society. and no one as far as I can see is saying “let’s replicate the Canadian system, flaws and all” anyway.

So my question now is, what else have you got? Because your “argument” seems to be nothing but an appeal to paranoia - assuming the only possible outcome if this is implemented in the U.K. is the worst version of the “worst” example, which will be immediately be taken advantage of by an eager cohort of abusers who inexplicably otherwise wouldn’t do a thing if the status quo remains.

I would invite you to consider what you would say to any one of those 13,000 people in defence of your position, and explain why they need to die a prolonged, painful and unavoidable death to ease your conscience about something that has a tiny chance of happening and every chance of happening anyway even if assisted suicide did not exist. I for one would like to hear it because it will need to be quite the statement.

[Watchman]

So where has assisted dying been a success?

How on earth can you quantify something as complex as this using the word “success”, what’s the measure for it being “unsuccessful”? It’s not something that can be measured by some form of criteria.

[The Weeping Angel]

So where has assisted dying been a success?

Literally anywhere where someone’s suffering has been alleviated. Which - again - is what happens in the vastly overwhelming majority of cases.

And as for Canada’s “appalling” system:

“What this increase tells me is that Canada has paid the most attention to individual human rights and autonomy,” said Chantal Perrot, a physician and Maid provider. “An increase in deaths with Maid means to me that people are choosing to die with their loved ones around them. The last days, weeks or months of life can be horrific. Why would they want to go through that if they could have a peaceful death surrounded by their family and loved ones?”

Of the 13,102 people who died using assisted death, 96.5% had terminal illnesses or faced imminent death. Only 463 people suffering from a chronic condition accessed Maid.

“I work in the healthcare system and see people with severe chronic medical conditions all the time,” said Mona Gupta, a psychiatrist at the University of Montreal and the chair of the federal panel on Maid and Mental Illness. “The idea that 400 of them – in a country of 40 million people – had reached the point where they had exhausted all treatment options, and wanted to access Maid, does not seems extreme to me.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... used-again

So your “bin fire” scenario is still helping thousands of people, many believe it is not overly generous but a reflection of a truly autonomous society. and no one as far as I can see is saying “let’s replicate the Canadian system, flaws and all” anyway.

So my question now is, what else have you got? Because your “argument” seems to be nothing but an appeal to paranoia - assuming the only possible outcome if this is implemented in the U.K. is the worst version of the “worst” example, which will be immediately be taken advantage of by an eager cohort of abusers who inexplicably otherwise wouldn’t do a thing if the status quo remains.

I would invite you to consider what you would say to any one of those 13,000 people in defence of your position, and explain why they need to die a prolonged, painful and unavoidable death to ease your conscience about something that has a tiny chance of happening and every chance of happening anyway even if assisted suicide did not exist. I for one would like to hear it because it will need to be quite the statement.

I'm not sure how encouraging homeless people to kill themselves is a success.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

What the fuck are you on about now?

[The Weeping Angel]

This.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... sted-death

Another case focused on Ms B, a woman in her 50s suffering from multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, who had a history of mental illness including suicidality and post-traumatic stress disorder. She was socially isolated and asked to die largely because she could not get proper housing, according to the report.

Committee members could not agree whether her death was justified; some said that because her inadequate housing was the main reason for her suffering, she should have been disqualified from euthanasia. Others argued that “social needs may be considered irremediable” if other options have been explored.

Sonu Gaind, a professor of medicine at the University of Toronto, said the coroner’s reports were alarming for numerous reasons, notably the handling of mental health conditions in those seeking euthanasia.

“What we’re doing in many cases is the opposite of suicide prevention,” he said, citing an example of a man in his 40s who had previously tried to kill himself and did not have a definitive diagnosis when his euthanasia was approved.

[kreuzberger]

A genuine question; has there ever been a law made and passed by free vote which has proven to be a shit show?

[Abernathy]

No evidence from Canada of instances of anybody, homeless or not, being “encouraged” to kill themselves whatsoever . Ridiculous, emotive crap.